Elif Shafak has written 21 books and writes with a level of beauty...
David Perell@david_perell
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Dec 28, 2025
~2 min read
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Elif Shafak has written 21 books and writes with a level of beauty that will make the birds around you sing louder.
She's my favorite kind of guest. Just by being around somebody like Elif, you unlock your imagination and open your eyes to the mysteries of our world. And what's hilarious about her is that she writes so beautifully while listening to head-smashing heavy metal.
Timestamps:
2:02 Making the world enchanted
4:39 Writing with wonder
7:22 Elif's writing routine
11:11 Why Elif writes to heavy metal
17:07 What makes for a good character?
34:12 The two kinds of writing
43:27 Writing poetically
48:30 The limits of English
51:46 Writing like you're drunk
55:04 Writers need freedom
1:06:44 The poetry of Rumi
1:10:22 Spirituality vs. Religion
1:17:11 James Baldwin
I've shared the full conversation below. If you'd rather watch on YouTube, or listen on Apple or Spotify, check out the first reply tweet. I've also shared clips in the replies.
Enjoy!
She's my favorite kind of guest. Just by being around somebody like Elif, you unlock your imagination and open your eyes to the mysteries of our world. And what's hilarious about her is that she writes so beautifully while listening to head-smashing heavy metal.
Timestamps:
2:02 Making the world enchanted
4:39 Writing with wonder
7:22 Elif's writing routine
11:11 Why Elif writes to heavy metal
17:07 What makes for a good character?
34:12 The two kinds of writing
43:27 Writing poetically
48:30 The limits of English
51:46 Writing like you're drunk
55:04 Writers need freedom
1:06:44 The poetry of Rumi
1:10:22 Spirituality vs. Religion
1:17:11 James Baldwin
I've shared the full conversation below. If you'd rather watch on YouTube, or listen on Apple or Spotify, check out the first reply tweet. I've also shared clips in the replies.
Enjoy!
80:56
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Links...
Apple: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/eli…
Spotify: open.spotify.com/episode/59Vp1y…
YouTube
youtube.com/watch?v=tpGCRk…
Apple: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/eli…
Spotify: open.spotify.com/episode/59Vp1y…
YouTube
youtube.com/watch?v=tpGCRk…
3
The Greeks had two ways of thinking about time: Chronos and Kairos.
"The time used by storytellers is more cyclical, close to the time of nature. The Greeks talked about Chronos. Chronology time. The one we can measure.
Then they talked about Kairos, which is deep time. That is the time of storytelling.
Kronos is more measurable. It's easy to calculate. You can depend on clocks, calendars, and schedules. But Kairos is deep time, and you need to pay attention to Kairos. If you're interested in the stories of nature, maybe the journey of a rock, you can't just measure it with that tiny element of time. You have to look at millennia; you have to look at this long duration of time.
I've always believed that storytellers should be interested in a much more cyclical notion of time."
"The time used by storytellers is more cyclical, close to the time of nature. The Greeks talked about Chronos. Chronology time. The one we can measure.
Then they talked about Kairos, which is deep time. That is the time of storytelling.
Kronos is more measurable. It's easy to calculate. You can depend on clocks, calendars, and schedules. But Kairos is deep time, and you need to pay attention to Kairos. If you're interested in the stories of nature, maybe the journey of a rock, you can't just measure it with that tiny element of time. You have to look at millennia; you have to look at this long duration of time.
I've always believed that storytellers should be interested in a much more cyclical notion of time."
1:25
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There are two kinds of writers:
1) Cerebral ones: The author is in control of the text. They know the plot and how the characters will behave in advance.
2) Intuitive ones: You're a little bit drunk. You don't quite understand what you're doing. You take risks. You don't know what your characters are going to do in the next five chapters, and you get lost in your own story as you create it.
1) Cerebral ones: The author is in control of the text. They know the plot and how the characters will behave in advance.
2) Intuitive ones: You're a little bit drunk. You don't quite understand what you're doing. You take risks. You don't know what your characters are going to do in the next five chapters, and you get lost in your own story as you create it.
0:52
