@sgruber91 ↔ @caleblaplante ↔ @AbolitionRising ↔ @AIMKS_2411 +1 conversation
Seth Gruber@sgruber91
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Nov 02, 2026
~9 min read
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Seth Gruber@sgruber91
Behold what being part of the “abolitionist” siloh leads to.
If you are laboring to criminalize abortion in red states as I and my team are but you also voted for Trump to stop a Kamala Harris presidency, then according to these moral pietists, you are a double-minded man. 😂🤦🏼♂️
If you are laboring to criminalize abortion in red states as I and my team are but you also voted for Trump to stop a Kamala Harris presidency, then according to these moral pietists, you are a double-minded man. 😂🤦🏼♂️
Caleb LaPlante@caleblaplante
Also, AR folks… FAA, EAN, AFS and many others are happy to work alongside WRR. Why won’t AR do the same: state your slight differences, then get in league to end this evil now? Instead, firing into your own bunker.
Abolitionists Rising 🌳🪓@AbolitionRising
Well, we're not the ones constantly accusing y'all of being a cult 😂
You seem like a good dude. We'd definitely be willing to talk. Seems any time we offer a criticism or say something is inconsistent Seth comes out swinging with his hardest possible punches. He's still angry at us for a podcast we did on him five years ago that was very gracious to him personally but very hard on his view (at the time he didn't support any abolition bills). Communication has definitely broken down since that point and any criticism we give (or any abolitionist gives) he takes as us calling him a reprobate or unbeliever (even though that's literally what he does to us).
So I'll say this, we make no claims calling into question Seth's faith in the Lord. We do believe his stance on Trump is inconsistent. We do believe his view of incrementalism is incorrect, counter-productive, and allows politicians excuses to avoid doing what is right.
You seem like a good dude. We'd definitely be willing to talk. Seems any time we offer a criticism or say something is inconsistent Seth comes out swinging with his hardest possible punches. He's still angry at us for a podcast we did on him five years ago that was very gracious to him personally but very hard on his view (at the time he didn't support any abolition bills). Communication has definitely broken down since that point and any criticism we give (or any abolitionist gives) he takes as us calling him a reprobate or unbeliever (even though that's literally what he does to us).
So I'll say this, we make no claims calling into question Seth's faith in the Lord. We do believe his stance on Trump is inconsistent. We do believe his view of incrementalism is incorrect, counter-productive, and allows politicians excuses to avoid doing what is right.
Caleb LaPlante@caleblaplante
Here’s what I see.
Seth mostly leaves you all alone. Yet the AR Discord mob tracks his every move on the internet and comes swarming like a hive of yellowjackets on each of his posts. For what purpose? To relive some old beef? Let it go. Fire down range. Right now you appear to me, and others coming into the movement, as the guy at the gun range who doesn’t know how to handle his firearm and is putting everyone in danger.
You all seem more concerned with being perfectly right in every single way than in actually leaving people alone who are working on the same issue and working alongside to accomplish to win.
I spoke to this more in this comment 👇🏻
Seth mostly leaves you all alone. Yet the AR Discord mob tracks his every move on the internet and comes swarming like a hive of yellowjackets on each of his posts. For what purpose? To relive some old beef? Let it go. Fire down range. Right now you appear to me, and others coming into the movement, as the guy at the gun range who doesn’t know how to handle his firearm and is putting everyone in danger.
You all seem more concerned with being perfectly right in every single way than in actually leaving people alone who are working on the same issue and working alongside to accomplish to win.
I spoke to this more in this comment 👇🏻
Caleb LaPlante@caleblaplante
Jason and Seth are good men who are on the right side of this issue (abolition via equal protection). If you disagree with that, say so, move on, and fire down range rather than across bunker.
My vantage point: I appreciate T Russell Hunter’s videos and positions. They’ve helped me greatly. But I’ve chosen to work with and in WRR because of the way in which many AR folks conduct themselves online and elsewhere.
I really am thankful for all of you Norman folks, men and women alike. I have no issue with your principles. In fact, I think I’m nearly or entirely aligned. It’s your tactics that repel me.
I am new to this arena of activism, but not to activism in general. Politics and community engagement are familiar to me. How one engages REALLY matters.
I looked at the long history of AR, its roots and its present mores, and decided that was not where to land.
From all the videos I’ve watched, going back years, it’s AR that started raining down mortars on Seth and Jason (not the other way around), for apparently no reason other than pious display.
I would like nothing more than to work with AR acolytes. I’ll continue liking and commenting on your posts, and I’ll have your 6 when Pro Life™️ bullets come in hot across social media frontlines.
But please, for the love of Christ, can we unite in humility and charity, for Spirit to be seen by this lost world?
Thank you for listening.
I do care about you all.
P.S. I’ll say this about TRH. I don’t agree yet that he is a cult leader, but he is a leader with a following. As such, he could call this enmity off if he wanted, but he doesn’t. Why is that? Why allow the fire of division to continue to burn, like a gas mine that’s been exposed?
geologyscience.com/gallery/geolog…
youtu.be/i4nMBzR3mGk
youtu.be/H8rD1pEUkuc
My vantage point: I appreciate T Russell Hunter’s videos and positions. They’ve helped me greatly. But I’ve chosen to work with and in WRR because of the way in which many AR folks conduct themselves online and elsewhere.
I really am thankful for all of you Norman folks, men and women alike. I have no issue with your principles. In fact, I think I’m nearly or entirely aligned. It’s your tactics that repel me.
I am new to this arena of activism, but not to activism in general. Politics and community engagement are familiar to me. How one engages REALLY matters.
I looked at the long history of AR, its roots and its present mores, and decided that was not where to land.
From all the videos I’ve watched, going back years, it’s AR that started raining down mortars on Seth and Jason (not the other way around), for apparently no reason other than pious display.
I would like nothing more than to work with AR acolytes. I’ll continue liking and commenting on your posts, and I’ll have your 6 when Pro Life™️ bullets come in hot across social media frontlines.
But please, for the love of Christ, can we unite in humility and charity, for Spirit to be seen by this lost world?
Thank you for listening.
I do care about you all.
P.S. I’ll say this about TRH. I don’t agree yet that he is a cult leader, but he is a leader with a following. As such, he could call this enmity off if he wanted, but he doesn’t. Why is that? Why allow the fire of division to continue to burn, like a gas mine that’s been exposed?
geologyscience.com/gallery/geolog…
youtu.be/i4nMBzR3mGk
youtu.be/H8rD1pEUkuc
Seth Gruber@sgruber91
Good word Caleb. Russell, Sam, James, Speed, Rick Small, Miller and crew love to wax and wane about their desire for unity and their love for the Church but folks like Storms and I have watched their behavior, slander, lies, and sinful attacks of their brothers in Christ since 2013 and we have the receipts whether they will admit to it or not. The fundamental issue is they treat immediatism as a gospel issue and a requirement of gospel fidelity. So if you disagree with immediatism, then in their book, you’re not just wrong, you’re in sin. This is how they’re able to justify their “prophetic” calls to repentance and uncharitable attacks against me and mine. In their book, we are guilty of unrepentant sin.
Abortion Is Murder KS@AIMKS_2411
you and the Pro-Life establishment have never understood the abolitionist’s objection to incrementalism.
We’ve never made this a gospel issue. Rather it is an obedience issue - love of God in accordance with His word.
And I’ve never heard the PLM or you respond to the following points from God’s word:
God has said: “bring justice to the fatherless” (Is. 1:17) and “You shall not murder” (Ex. 20:13).
Moreover, He says:
“You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I command you.” (Deut. 4:2).
God repeats this in James 4:12 when He says: “There is only one lawgiver and judge, . . . But who are you to judge your neighbor?”
Every incremental effort to regulate abortion short of abolition usurps God’s authority as Lawgiver. And we must never do evil that good may come (Romans 3:8). We can’t sin in order to love our neighbor and save “some babies”. Would you stab a three year old in the heart if it meant you could end all abortion with that one step? If not, why not?
Ultimately, incrementalism relies on man centered pragmatism rather than trusting in what God has said regarding the removal of evil. Even though we know it will not happen overnight.
Jesus did not give us an incremental plan for dealing with sin. He commands us to remove it immediately.
“And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.”
Matthew 5:30
Abortion will be abolished when pro-lifers repent of a 50+ year unbiblical strategy and become abolitionists.
No one is questioning your faith or your love of neighbor. We’re questioning your obedience to God’s word.
That doesn’t make us a purity cult. That makes us a group of brothers trying to correct other another brother. So God is glorified and it goes well for you on judgment day when the Lord hands out rewards.
We’ve never made this a gospel issue. Rather it is an obedience issue - love of God in accordance with His word.
And I’ve never heard the PLM or you respond to the following points from God’s word:
God has said: “bring justice to the fatherless” (Is. 1:17) and “You shall not murder” (Ex. 20:13).
Moreover, He says:
“You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I command you.” (Deut. 4:2).
God repeats this in James 4:12 when He says: “There is only one lawgiver and judge, . . . But who are you to judge your neighbor?”
Every incremental effort to regulate abortion short of abolition usurps God’s authority as Lawgiver. And we must never do evil that good may come (Romans 3:8). We can’t sin in order to love our neighbor and save “some babies”. Would you stab a three year old in the heart if it meant you could end all abortion with that one step? If not, why not?
Ultimately, incrementalism relies on man centered pragmatism rather than trusting in what God has said regarding the removal of evil. Even though we know it will not happen overnight.
Jesus did not give us an incremental plan for dealing with sin. He commands us to remove it immediately.
“And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.”
Matthew 5:30
Abortion will be abolished when pro-lifers repent of a 50+ year unbiblical strategy and become abolitionists.
No one is questioning your faith or your love of neighbor. We’re questioning your obedience to God’s word.
That doesn’t make us a purity cult. That makes us a group of brothers trying to correct other another brother. So God is glorified and it goes well for you on judgment day when the Lord hands out rewards.
Seth Gruber@sgruber91
You could have explained it to me in Kansas when I said I was happy to have our teams talk and figure out how to collaborate! Remember that? But you didn’t want to meet in person and develop a friendship. You just wanted me to repost whatever you were writing! Lol 😂🤦🏼♂️
Kayla Suderman@ksude7
@sgruber91 abolitionist groups frequently repost other state bills for free to help get the word out about efforts to criminalize abortion. @AIMKS_2411 emailed you to see if you'd be willing to promote an abolition bill (in your state) based on its own merits. It was not a request to promote AIMKS as an organization.
We now recognize that's not how you operate and that you expect something much more formal to take place before you offer help to promote bills that criminalize abortion.
Your difference in giving aid is your perogative and can be respected, but because you've turned this into a character assassination against AIMKS leadership, please do not be surprised when others no longer desire to reach out to "collaborate" with you. If you repent of your uncharitable words against Kansas abolitionists in this situation, then that will change.
We now recognize that's not how you operate and that you expect something much more formal to take place before you offer help to promote bills that criminalize abortion.
Your difference in giving aid is your perogative and can be respected, but because you've turned this into a character assassination against AIMKS leadership, please do not be surprised when others no longer desire to reach out to "collaborate" with you. If you repent of your uncharitable words against Kansas abolitionists in this situation, then that will change.
Seth Gruber@sgruber91
I told AIM KS I loved what they were doing and said we should get our teams talking to discuss how we could work together to have a bigger impact for equal protection in KS and he ghosted us and stopped responding. That is the truth. That is the fact.
Kayla Suderman@ksude7
I've seen @stumc910 take responsibility several times (one such time right above in this thread) for dropping the ball during the busy legislative session. I'm not disputing that.
However, it was @AIMKS_2411 that first reached out to YOU. Them forgetting to circle back does not equate to "not wanting to be friends," which is essentially what you've concluded in your statement above.
I'm asking that you forgive an oversight and not spread bizarre stories behind the back of AIMKS leaders, such as what Caleb revealed in this thread he has apparently been told.
I'm also asking that you repent for your bitterness toward them and the slander you have spread from your version of "being ghosted." You have an opportunity to model the unity you speak so often of wanting with abolitionists right before you with this.
However, it was @AIMKS_2411 that first reached out to YOU. Them forgetting to circle back does not equate to "not wanting to be friends," which is essentially what you've concluded in your statement above.
I'm asking that you forgive an oversight and not spread bizarre stories behind the back of AIMKS leaders, such as what Caleb revealed in this thread he has apparently been told.
I'm also asking that you repent for your bitterness toward them and the slander you have spread from your version of "being ghosted." You have an opportunity to model the unity you speak so often of wanting with abolitionists right before you with this.
Seth Gruber@sgruber91
BS. He replied and said he missed the email and I said no worries -we can find a time to all connect on zoom and link up. I said we wanted to help and connect our teams. Even after he replied to the missed email, he never replied to the 3rd request to schedule a time. He never wanted to actually link arms. I have the email thread; you don’t.
Kayla Suderman@ksude7
You are welcome to post the email thread here to talk through. That doesn't change the fact that this is quite the overreaction against someone dropping the ball on an email.
It also doesn't change the fact that you were made aware of a Kansas abolition bill and refused to promote it until you had formal meetings scheduled. AIMKS was looking for people who would quickly put out information on the filed bill. We needed to pressure legislators to give it a hearing. Instead, you've turned this situation into something against you personally.
Should we be prioritizing team meetings over the lives of prenatal children? Or, if someone notifies us of a righteous bill, should we freely promote it out of love for our prenatal neighbors?
It also doesn't change the fact that you were made aware of a Kansas abolition bill and refused to promote it until you had formal meetings scheduled. AIMKS was looking for people who would quickly put out information on the filed bill. We needed to pressure legislators to give it a hearing. Instead, you've turned this situation into something against you personally.
Should we be prioritizing team meetings over the lives of prenatal children? Or, if someone notifies us of a righteous bill, should we freely promote it out of love for our prenatal neighbors?
Seth Gruber@sgruber91
We don’t immediately support every abolition bill simply because we agree with the merits. Btw, where have you been with your righteous spankings on abolitionists who have not publicly supported equal protection bills that @JasonStormsFSSE and his friends have helped get drafted? Should we assume their silence means they’re cowards or beholden to sinister motives that have compromised them? Because that’s what all of you pharisaical AHA folks assume of me. Shall I start publicly attacking all the AHA folks and AR leaders who haven’t publicly backed EP bills in specific states drafted by people other than their in-house groups? Nah, I won’t, because I’m smart enough to know y’all care deeply about ending abortion so I assume the best and attribute their lack of backing such bills to innocent motives. :)
Kayla Suderman@ksude7
I wasn't aware Jason has personally drafted bills. I've seen him lobby for bills that others have worked on though. And I have no problem supporting bills from others that meet the biblical standards for legislation and justice. But this thread isn't about Jason or other abolitionists. Respectfully, it's about your jab at @AIMKS_2411. Specifically:
-AIMKS reaching out to you when you lived in Kansas to see if you would advertise a filed abolition bill
-A drop in communication on that front which you interpreted as animosity
-Your narrative (as revealed by Caleb) against AIMKS which taints their reputations (some who are new leaders and weren't even present with AIM when this took place)
-A request for you to repent toward AIMKS (specifically Stu) for your bitterness over not getting a formal meeting with them
-AIMKS reaching out to you when you lived in Kansas to see if you would advertise a filed abolition bill
-A drop in communication on that front which you interpreted as animosity
-Your narrative (as revealed by Caleb) against AIMKS which taints their reputations (some who are new leaders and weren't even present with AIM when this took place)
-A request for you to repent toward AIMKS (specifically Stu) for your bitterness over not getting a formal meeting with them